What is God doing in Holland?

Had an interesting day in Doorn. The leadership team of Agapè (the Dutch branch of Campus Crusade for Christ) is looking to the future and wants to get a better view on what God is doing in the Netherlands. So they invited Bram Krol (an expert on church growth), Arnold van Heusden (director of the Dutch EA) and myself to give our perspective on that.

I kicked it off by stating that the church in the Netherlands is in an existential crisis of the Loadicea-type, and that the only way out is a revival of the heart, a renewal of the mind and a reformation of structures, that will lead us back to a Jesus-centered disciple-making movement that impacts society. I challenged Agapè to become such a movement and train Christians in the basics of hearing God's voice, healing and deliverance, Christ-like character, discipling people and starting a movement of small groups. "Bill Bright is cheering you on from heaven, after all his vision was to see 10 million new small groups planted." You can download the 'light' version of my presentation here: Download wat_doet_god_in_nederland_light.ppt.

After me came Bram Krol who immediately stated there was likely "no bigger contrast imaginable" than his perspective and mine.

He gave some examples of renewal in the traditional churches (a bit more evangelicalism, a bit more of the Holy Spirit), and basically said the church was doing allright and was certainly not in need of drastic measures. He even named the Roman Catholic church as a bright example of countering church decline, "because the bishops restated their authority over the believers, and reconfirmed the church dogma's". Then Arnold came up and gave some inspiring examples of Christians who take the lead in relevant debates in society. I made a few notes of their presentations: Download visiedag_agape_2_dec_05.doc. Also see Mark de Boer's weblog for his perspective.

Then an interesting discussion unfolded. I commented that Bram basically confirmed my main point that bottom-up movements in the church bring new life, but that the real (missional) challenge is to bring Jesus to people outside the church and form new expressions of community around them. Bram said he didn't believe in those emerging and organic movements, because "everything that is not under control of the clergy tends to heresy and sectarianism." Now he got me triggered! I stated there is likely more heresy and sectarianism in the existing church, as most churches are not doing what Jesus taught and modelled - make disciples and bring the Kingdom. Then he came with the argument that emerging church is not structured, therefore cannot really retain its fruit. Interesting argument, as most traditional churches are overstructured and seem to have become infertile.

It became worse when Arnold 'mediated' by saying that in his experience the best form of church was a combination of small groups where believers pray and read the Bible, and bigger celebrations led by clergy for worship, communion and baptism. I replied that it seemed to me more true to the Gospel and the priesthood of all believers to do communion and baptism also in the small groups. They both fell silent and said that these things really needed to be under the authority of the church. I replied that I'm part of the church, so if people come to Christ, I feel free to baptise them immediately instead of bringing them to some formal church service. They said I was a heretic if I would do that. Well, I already knew that. ;-)

Well, you can imagine we had a great morning. I didn't mind the discussion, I stood my ground and believe open debate is essential for progress, but still find it hard to believe that two people who by the nature of their role in the evangelical movement should be visionaries, were so traditionalistic and un-missional in their view. I left the meeting with an even stronger conviction that it's really time to push for reformation, and see the church become a movement again, and not hold back.

Comments

[charis]

Amen. GO MARC! The first heresy would be clergy usurping the place of Christ as Head in His church functionally - how can anything be built that will last on that foundation! Grrrr. Lead us not into temptation...

[Eric Oosterom]

Marc,

dank voor dit korte verslag. Ik moet zeggen dat het tenenkrommend is om de reactie te zien van deze twee "wijze oude mannen". Ik prijs je insteek en inzet en hoop dat Agape het leven proeft in het door jou getoonde vergezicht. En dat ze de durf hebben vertrouwde paden los te laten en met de Heer het avontuur in te stappen....

[Jasper]

Tjonge, redelijk verbijsterend inderdaad. Zeker als je ziet dat iemand als George Barna totaal 'om' is. Face the facts, denk ik dan.

Maar het is cool dat je in gesprek bent, en liefdevol de confrontatie aangaat, gogogo Marc!

[Rudolf Roos]

Wat je schrijft verrast me van Bram Krol, want hij heeft toch juist best veel gezien wereldwijd van allerlei bewegingen enzo (in Congo dacht ik) waar niet zoveel structuur in zat. Jammer.

Ik moest wel glimlachen toen ik dit las in je aantekeningen van de toespraak van Arnold van Heusden.

"De leiders zagen God vooral bezig in waar ze zelf mee bezig zijn."

[Petra]

Sounds so familiar...

[Rogier]

Hmmm. dat is één gesprek waar ik wel bij had willen zijn. Verrassend, en ook weer niet...

[Matthias Arentsen]

Comments between brackets by me:

Quote Marc: "It became worse when Arnold 'mediated' by saying that in his experience the best form of (keeping) church (somewhat alive) was a combination of small groups where believers pray and read the Bible, and bigger celebrations led by clergy (without the holy Spirit) for worship, communion and baptism."

De Geest zegt hele andere dingen over het instituut kerk: jullie zijn ellendig, jammerlijk, arm, blind en naakt. Maar je ziet het niet eens. Geef alles, geef jezelf uit handen! Verneder je voor God, juist als je denkt dat je weet hoe het allemaal zit. Laat mij je vullen en niets anders! Ik wil je schoon maken, je rijkdom geven, je kleden en je inzicht geven. Kniel voor Hem neer!

Jezus wil zo intiem met jou zijn, Hij wil met jou samen zijn! Wees niet langer bang voor de gaven van de Geest. Wees niet langer bang voor wat God met je gaat doen als je je overgeeft! Je zult geweldige dingen gaan zien, die je nooit voor mogelijk hebt gehouden. Durf door je beperkte visie over God heen te breken en God groter te laten zijn dan jouw beeld van Hem.

Waarom zien we zoveel honger, juist buiten de kerk? Omdat Jezus kwam voor hen die verloren gaan! Laten we elkaar aanmoedigen om voor God te gaan.

[Ben]

This is stunning, and saddening. Can't believe it's true. Makes me cry too. On the other hand, I know God has never given up on the church, and never will. He will go on, and is going on, even when many spirits from within the church are trying to put human limits to God's work. My God cannot and will not be stopped. Not by any man or devil. He is the almighty God, unbreakable, unshakeable, unstoppable. Can we as a church please be catalysts of his work instead of trying to canalise it in our own human (dutch?) channels?
There's a growing need for revival in our nation. The earth cries out, and so do many many lost souls. They are crying out for christians to start doing what they are called for: to be radically sold out for Jesus, to go, whatever the costs, not fearing men or devils. O, I can't withold this quote by John Wesley: "Give me twelve men who love Jesus with all their hearts and who do not fear men or devils. I care not one whit whether they be clergy or laity. With these men I will change the world."
It is time for the church to rise up, and start changing the world.

[janA]

What about Jesus going to the synagogue?
Paul at his travels went first to the synagogue? The message of his letters was not to leave but to love each other.
I believe a holy catholic Church: the communion of saints.
Bram Krol is right in pointing at that

[Marc]

Don't think this is the point, really. It's not about 'synagogue first' and against leaving. It's about recognizing that the house that God builds is made of living stones, or as you say 'one catholic church'. Bram Krol didn't point that out. If he had, he would also fully embrace the organic expressions of church.